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[Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
 
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Lengauer Markus
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:23 am  Reply with quote

Hi to all!

Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?

Thank you very much!

Best Regards,
Markus

Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/

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G S Krishnamurthy
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:20 am  Reply with quote

Dear Markus,

If you search in archieves, one of our friends in xansys had listed the
relation between shore hardness and mooney rivilian constants.

The relationship between the Shore-Hardness of rubber and the related
Mooney-Rivlin-terms with two coefficients is listed below. If you want to
have more coefficients then you will have to do some measurements.

Shore-A G-Modul C10 C01
[°] [N/mm2] [N/mm2] [N/mm2]
35 0,406 0,162 0,041
36 0,407 0,163 0,041
37 0,412 0,165 0,041
38 0,421 0,168 0,042
39 0,435 0,174 0,044
40 0,452 0,181 0,045
41 0,473 0,189 0,047
42 0,496 0,198 0,050
43 0,523 0,209 0,052
44 0,551 0,220 0,055
45 0,581 0,232 0,058
46 0,613 0,245 0,061
47 0,647 0,259 0,065
48 0,682 0,273 0,068
49 0,718 0,287 0,072
50 0,755 0,302 0,076
51 0,793 0,317 0,079
52 0,832 0,333 0,083
53 0,872 0,349 0,087
54 0,914 0,366 0,091
55 0,956 0,382 0,096
56 0,999 0,400 0,100
57 1,043 0,417 0,104
58 1,089 0,436 0,109
59 1,136 0,454 0,114
60 1,185 0,474 0,118
61 1,236 0,494 0,124
62 1,289 0,516 0,129
63 1,345 0,538 0,135
64 1,403 0,561 0,140
65 1,465 0,586 0,147
66 1,531 0,612 0,153
67 1,600 0,640 0,160
68 1,675 0,670 0,168
69 1,754 0,702 0,175
70 1,839 0,736 0,184

>From the mail the correlation between Shore-A hardness and modulus of
elasticity is:
E (psi) = 11.427*A -0.4445*A^2 + 0.0071*A^3
For an incompressible material, the shear modulus MU = E/3, and the constant
in the NeoHookean strain energy function C10 = MU/2 = E/6

For more clarity search archieves, i am not having the exact mail .

Hope this helps

Regards
G.S.Krishnamurthy
Manager-PD
Royal enfield motors
a unit of eicher ltd
Thiruvottiyur
Chennai - 29

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lengauer Markus [SMTP:--email address suppressed--]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:52 PM
> To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> Subject: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
>
> Hi to all!
>
> Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
> from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Best Regards,
> Markus
>
> Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
> Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
> FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
> Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
> Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
> visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Disclaimer-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information contained in this communication and any accompanying
document(s) is confidential and/or privileged material of EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED & all group companies. This information is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is unlawful and prohibited. If you have received this message in error and / or are not the intended recipient, please notify immediately the sender or EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED at the telephone or fax or email address given above and permanently delete the original message. The views expressed in this e-mail message (including any attachments) are those of the individual sender except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED.
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benoit lefoulon
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:00 am  Reply with quote

Dear all,

I think, for an incompressible material, the constant
in the NeoHookean strain energy function (C10 + C01) = MU/2

Don't forget C01

E (psi) = 11.427*A -0.4445*A^2 + 0.0071*A^3
what area the number 11.427, 0.4445 and 0.0071 ?
Are the same for all rubber ?

Benoit Lefoulon
Engineer
Antecim
France 38


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lengauer Markus" <--email address suppressed-->
To: "ANSYS User Discussion List" <--email address suppressed-->
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:34 AM
Subject: AW: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants


> Dear G.S.!
>
> Thank you so much! I am in your dept.
>
> Best Regards,
> Markus
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: --email address suppressed-- [mailto:--email address suppressed--]Im
> Auftrag von G S Krishnamurthy
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 01. März 2005 09:19
> An: ANSYS User Discussion List
> Betreff: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
>
>
> Dear Markus,
>
> If you search in archieves, one of our friends in xansys had listed the
> relation between shore hardness and mooney rivilian constants.
>
> The relationship between the Shore-Hardness of rubber and the related
> Mooney-Rivlin-terms with two coefficients is listed below. If you want to
> have more coefficients then you will have to do some measurements.
>
> Shore-A G-Modul C10 C01
> [°] [N/mm2] [N/mm2] [N/mm2]
> 35 0,406 0,162 0,041
> 36 0,407 0,163 0,041
> 37 0,412 0,165 0,041
> 38 0,421 0,168 0,042
> 39 0,435 0,174 0,044
> 40 0,452 0,181 0,045
> 41 0,473 0,189 0,047
> 42 0,496 0,198 0,050
> 43 0,523 0,209 0,052
> 44 0,551 0,220 0,055
> 45 0,581 0,232 0,058
> 46 0,613 0,245 0,061
> 47 0,647 0,259 0,065
> 48 0,682 0,273 0,068
> 49 0,718 0,287 0,072
> 50 0,755 0,302 0,076
> 51 0,793 0,317 0,079
> 52 0,832 0,333 0,083
> 53 0,872 0,349 0,087
> 54 0,914 0,366 0,091
> 55 0,956 0,382 0,096
> 56 0,999 0,400 0,100
> 57 1,043 0,417 0,104
> 58 1,089 0,436 0,109
> 59 1,136 0,454 0,114
> 60 1,185 0,474 0,118
> 61 1,236 0,494 0,124
> 62 1,289 0,516 0,129
> 63 1,345 0,538 0,135
> 64 1,403 0,561 0,140
> 65 1,465 0,586 0,147
> 66 1,531 0,612 0,153
> 67 1,600 0,640 0,160
> 68 1,675 0,670 0,168
> 69 1,754 0,702 0,175
> 70 1,839 0,736 0,184
>
> >From the mail the correlation between Shore-A hardness and modulus of
> elasticity is:
> E (psi) = 11.427*A -0.4445*A^2 + 0.0071*A^3
> For an incompressible material, the shear modulus MU = E/3, and the
constant
> in the NeoHookean strain energy function C10 = MU/2 = E/6
>
> For more clarity search archieves, i am not having the exact mail .
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
> G.S.Krishnamurthy
> Manager-PD
> Royal enfield motors
> a unit of eicher ltd
> Thiruvottiyur
> Chennai - 29
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lengauer Markus [SMTP:--email address suppressed--]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:52 PM
> > To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> > Subject: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
> >
> > Hi to all!
> >
> > Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
> > from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?
> >
> > Thank you very much!
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Markus
> >
> > Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
> > Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
> > FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
> > Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
> > Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
> > visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/
> > ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> > | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> > ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------Disclaimer------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
> The information contained in this communication and any accompanying
> document(s) is confidential and/or privileged material of EICHER GOODEARTH
LIMITED & all group companies. This information is intended only for the
person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission,
dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
unlawful and prohibited. If you have received this message in error and / or
are not the intended recipient, please notify immediately the sender or
EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED at the telephone or fax or email address given
above and permanently delete the original message. The views expressed in
this e-mail message (including any attachments) are those of the individual
sender except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to
be the views of EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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KS Raghavan
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:12 am  Reply with quote

Krishna Murthy,

Your post turned out to be timely for us here as we were trying to get
representative M-R parameters for rubber used in a seal. I have a question
in this connection. Do these values cover all types of rubber used? In other
words , in case of uncertainty can these values be taken as lower / upper
bounds to applicable values ?

Thanks and cheers
____________________________________________
K. S. RAGHAVAN,
Discipline Chief, Structures ,
InfoTech Enterprises Ltd.,
Madhapur , HYDERABAD , 500 033 , India

Tel: ++91 - 40 - 2311 1473
email : --email address suppressed--
_____________________________________________



-----Original Message-----
From: --email address suppressed-- [mailto:--email address suppressed--]On
Behalf Of G S Krishnamurthy
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:49 PM
To: ANSYS User Discussion List
Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants


Dear Markus,

If you search in archieves, one of our friends in xansys had listed the
relation between shore hardness and mooney rivilian constants.

The relationship between the Shore-Hardness of rubber and the related
Mooney-Rivlin-terms with two coefficients is listed below. If you want to
have more coefficients then you will have to do some measurements.

Shore-A G-Modul C10 C01
[°] [N/mm2] [N/mm2] [N/mm2]
35 0,406 0,162 0,041
36 0,407 0,163 0,041
37 0,412 0,165 0,041
38 0,421 0,168 0,042
39 0,435 0,174 0,044
40 0,452 0,181 0,045
41 0,473 0,189 0,047
42 0,496 0,198 0,050
43 0,523 0,209 0,052
44 0,551 0,220 0,055
45 0,581 0,232 0,058
46 0,613 0,245 0,061
47 0,647 0,259 0,065
48 0,682 0,273 0,068
49 0,718 0,287 0,072
50 0,755 0,302 0,076
51 0,793 0,317 0,079
52 0,832 0,333 0,083
53 0,872 0,349 0,087
54 0,914 0,366 0,091
55 0,956 0,382 0,096
56 0,999 0,400 0,100
57 1,043 0,417 0,104
58 1,089 0,436 0,109
59 1,136 0,454 0,114
60 1,185 0,474 0,118
61 1,236 0,494 0,124
62 1,289 0,516 0,129
63 1,345 0,538 0,135
64 1,403 0,561 0,140
65 1,465 0,586 0,147
66 1,531 0,612 0,153
67 1,600 0,640 0,160
68 1,675 0,670 0,168
69 1,754 0,702 0,175
70 1,839 0,736 0,184

>From the mail the correlation between Shore-A hardness and modulus of
elasticity is:
E (psi) = 11.427*A -0.4445*A^2 + 0.0071*A^3
For an incompressible material, the shear modulus MU = E/3, and the constant
in the NeoHookean strain energy function C10 = MU/2 = E/6

For more clarity search archieves, i am not having the exact mail .

Hope this helps

Regards
G.S.Krishnamurthy
Manager-PD
Royal enfield motors
a unit of eicher ltd
Thiruvottiyur
Chennai - 29

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lengauer Markus [SMTP:--email address suppressed--]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:52 PM
> To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> Subject: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
>
> Hi to all!
>
> Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
> from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Best Regards,
> Markus
>
> Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
> Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
> FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
> Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
> Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
> visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----Disclaimer--------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
The information contained in this communication and any accompanying
document(s) is confidential and/or privileged material of EICHER GOODEARTH
LIMITED & all group companies. This information is intended only for the
person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission,
dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
unlawful and prohibited. If you have received this message in error and / or
are not the intended recipient, please notify immediately the sender or
EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED at the telephone or fax or email address given
above and permanently delete the original message. The views expressed in
this e-mail message (including any attachments) are those of the individual
sender except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to
be the views of EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------

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G S Krishnamurthy
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:23 am  Reply with quote

Dear Raghavan,

Preferably i used to give stress strain values as input (which is measured
and calculated) to ansys and used to get mooney constants.As a thumb rule
and for reference i used to have this.This is more or less matching with the
experiments for all the rubbers(Plus or minus 10~15%) i have used.Since
this is originated from one of our friends in xansys (I forgot his name ) i
don't know how he arrived these constants 11.427,0.4445, 0.0071.

Hope this helps

Regards

G.S.Krishnamurthy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KS Raghavan [SMTP:--email address suppressed--]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:40 PM
> To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
>
> Krishna Murthy,
>
> Your post turned out to be timely for us here as we were trying to get
> representative M-R parameters for rubber used in a seal. I have a
> question
> in this connection. Do these values cover all types of rubber used? In
> other
> words , in case of uncertainty can these values be taken as lower / upper
> bounds to applicable values ?
>
> Thanks and cheers
> ____________________________________________
> K. S. RAGHAVAN,
> Discipline Chief, Structures ,
> InfoTech Enterprises Ltd.,
> Madhapur , HYDERABAD , 500 033 , India
>
> Tel: ++91 - 40 - 2311 1473
> email : --email address suppressed--
> _____________________________________________
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: --email address suppressed-- [mailto:--email address suppressed--]On
> Behalf Of G S Krishnamurthy
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:49 PM
> To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
>
>
> Dear Markus,
>
> If you search in archieves, one of our friends in xansys had listed the
> relation between shore hardness and mooney rivilian constants.
>
> The relationship between the Shore-Hardness of rubber and the related
> Mooney-Rivlin-terms with two coefficients is listed below. If you want to
> have more coefficients then you will have to do some measurements.
>
> Shore-A G-Modul C10 C01
> [°] [N/mm2] [N/mm2] [N/mm2]
> 35 0,406 0,162 0,041
> 36 0,407 0,163 0,041
> 37 0,412 0,165 0,041
> 38 0,421 0,168 0,042
> 39 0,435 0,174 0,044
> 40 0,452 0,181 0,045
> 41 0,473 0,189 0,047
> 42 0,496 0,198 0,050
> 43 0,523 0,209 0,052
> 44 0,551 0,220 0,055
> 45 0,581 0,232 0,058
> 46 0,613 0,245 0,061
> 47 0,647 0,259 0,065
> 48 0,682 0,273 0,068
> 49 0,718 0,287 0,072
> 50 0,755 0,302 0,076
> 51 0,793 0,317 0,079
> 52 0,832 0,333 0,083
> 53 0,872 0,349 0,087
> 54 0,914 0,366 0,091
> 55 0,956 0,382 0,096
> 56 0,999 0,400 0,100
> 57 1,043 0,417 0,104
> 58 1,089 0,436 0,109
> 59 1,136 0,454 0,114
> 60 1,185 0,474 0,118
> 61 1,236 0,494 0,124
> 62 1,289 0,516 0,129
> 63 1,345 0,538 0,135
> 64 1,403 0,561 0,140
> 65 1,465 0,586 0,147
> 66 1,531 0,612 0,153
> 67 1,600 0,640 0,160
> 68 1,675 0,670 0,168
> 69 1,754 0,702 0,175
> 70 1,839 0,736 0,184
>
> >From the mail the correlation between Shore-A hardness and modulus of
> elasticity is:
> E (psi) = 11.427*A -0.4445*A^2 + 0.0071*A^3
> For an incompressible material, the shear modulus MU = E/3, and the
> constant
> in the NeoHookean strain energy function C10 = MU/2 = E/6
>
> For more clarity search archieves, i am not having the exact mail .
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
> G.S.Krishnamurthy
> Manager-PD
> Royal enfield motors
> a unit of eicher ltd
> Thiruvottiyur
> Chennai - 29
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lengauer Markus [SMTP:--email address suppressed--]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:52 PM
> > To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> > Subject: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
> >
> > Hi to all!
> >
> > Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
> > from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?
> >
> > Thank you very much!
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Markus
> >
> > Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
> > Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
> > FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
> > Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
> > Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
> > visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/
> > ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> > | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> > ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ----Disclaimer------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ---------------------------------------
> The information contained in this communication and any accompanying
> document(s) is confidential and/or privileged material of EICHER GOODEARTH
> LIMITED & all group companies. This information is intended only for the
> person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission,
> dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
> this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
> is
> unlawful and prohibited. If you have received this message in error and /
> or
> are not the intended recipient, please notify immediately the sender or
> EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED at the telephone or fax or email address given
> above and permanently delete the original message. The views expressed in
> this e-mail message (including any attachments) are those of the
> individual
> sender except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them
> to
> be the views of EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ------------------------------------------
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------

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rick.fischer
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:03 am  Reply with quote

This looks like the data first posted by Manuela Waltz about five years
ago. I took this data, plus a curve from a book on rubber spring design by
Gobel, plus a relationship supplied by noted Ansys weenie Dave Lindemann,
and compared them. There was a considerable difference in the elastic
modulus vs. hardness plots, and I would expect the Mooney constants for the
materials that were the basis of the Gobel and Lindemann work would vary
also.

I tried to use this data about six months ago in a simulation of a thick
rectangular rubber gasket and got poor corelation with test data. First,
because a two constant Mooney model is only valid for relatively low (for
elastomers) strain. Second, I think you really need to base the
coefficients on tensile, compressive and shear data. My gasket was loaded
in compression, and I'm guessing that the Waltz data was based on uniaxial
tension. You simply cannot characterize the complex behavior of an
elastomer under all conditions of tension, compression and shear, with a
single simple uniaxial tension test. Similarly, you cannot correlate this
behavior to a rubber based on a simplistic hardness test. I've found the
Waltz data, while tempting, to be of limited data practical value.

Does anybody know the background behind that data? Manuela, are you still
with us?

Rick Fischer
Principal Engineer
Emerson Network Power



"KS Raghavan"
<raghavanks@infot To: "ANSYS User Discussion List" <--email address suppressed-->
echsw.com> cc:
Sent by: Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
xansys-bounces@xa
nsys.org


03/01/2005 03:09
AM
Please respond to
ANSYS User
Discussion List






Krishna Murthy,

Your post turned out to be timely for us here as we were trying to get
representative M-R parameters for rubber used in a seal. I have a question
in this connection. Do these values cover all types of rubber used? In
other
words , in case of uncertainty can these values be taken as lower / upper
bounds to applicable values ?

Thanks and cheers
____________________________________________
K. S. RAGHAVAN,
Discipline Chief, Structures ,
InfoTech Enterprises Ltd.,
Madhapur , HYDERABAD , 500 033 , India

Tel: ++91 - 40 - 2311 1473
email : --email address suppressed--
_____________________________________________



-----Original Message-----
From: --email address suppressed-- [mailto:--email address suppressed--]On
Behalf Of G S Krishnamurthy
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:49 PM
To: ANSYS User Discussion List
Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants


Dear Markus,

If you search in archieves, one of our friends in xansys had listed the
relation between shore hardness and mooney rivilian constants.

The relationship between the Shore-Hardness of rubber and the related
Mooney-Rivlin-terms with two coefficients is listed below. If you want to
have more coefficients then you will have to do some measurements.

Shore-A G-Modul C10 C01
[°] [N/mm2] [N/mm2] [N/mm2]
35 0,406 0,162 0,041
36 0,407 0,163 0,041
37 0,412 0,165 0,041
38 0,421 0,168 0,042
39 0,435 0,174 0,044
40 0,452 0,181 0,045
41 0,473 0,189 0,047
42 0,496 0,198 0,050
43 0,523 0,209 0,052
44 0,551 0,220 0,055
45 0,581 0,232 0,058
46 0,613 0,245 0,061
47 0,647 0,259 0,065
48 0,682 0,273 0,068
49 0,718 0,287 0,072
50 0,755 0,302 0,076
51 0,793 0,317 0,079
52 0,832 0,333 0,083
53 0,872 0,349 0,087
54 0,914 0,366 0,091
55 0,956 0,382 0,096
56 0,999 0,400 0,100
57 1,043 0,417 0,104
58 1,089 0,436 0,109
59 1,136 0,454 0,114
60 1,185 0,474 0,118
61 1,236 0,494 0,124
62 1,289 0,516 0,129
63 1,345 0,538 0,135
64 1,403 0,561 0,140
65 1,465 0,586 0,147
66 1,531 0,612 0,153
67 1,600 0,640 0,160
68 1,675 0,670 0,168
69 1,754 0,702 0,175
70 1,839 0,736 0,184

>From the mail the correlation between Shore-A hardness and modulus of
elasticity is:
E (psi) = 11.427*A -0.4445*A^2 + 0.0071*A^3
For an incompressible material, the shear modulus MU = E/3, and the
constant
in the NeoHookean strain energy function C10 = MU/2 = E/6

For more clarity search archieves, i am not having the exact mail .

Hope this helps

Regards
G.S.Krishnamurthy
Manager-PD
Royal enfield motors
a unit of eicher ltd
Thiruvottiyur
Chennai - 29

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lengauer Markus [SMTP:--email address suppressed--]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:52 PM
> To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> Subject: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
>
> Hi to all!
>
> Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
> from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Best Regards,
> Markus
>
> Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
> Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
> FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
> Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
> Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
> visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----Disclaimer--------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------
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LIMITED & all group companies. This information is intended only for the
person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission,
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this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
is
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PAltidis
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:36 am  Reply with quote

Hi Markus,
As Rick mentioned, the data is almost "too risky" (my term) to use without
due diligence. The best route is to test the material at hand which -
believe it or not ;>( ) - can vary from any posted data and use a 2,5 or 9
M-R coefficient representation. Having said that, do not discount other
material models that are available in ANSYS for rubber types that can give
you a better fit.
For example, the Yeoh model is best for natural rubber when compared to
Ogden or Mooney Rivlin. For nitrile rubber the Lin. Viscoelastic 3- , 2-
or 1-prony series is better than Arruda-Boyce's representation.
All this can be found in -probably- the one of the best sources that I know
of: www.polymerFEM.com

I am not sure how much info you can get from a 5 x 5 x 0.5 mm sample.
Since not all rubbers are created equal, at least do you know the type/grade
of that rubber sample ??

Paris Altidis
Principal Engineer
Borg Warner - Transmission Systems
708-547-2719
===
The human bio neural net excels because of:
-Planning ; -Perseverance ; -Passion ; -Pictures!
Alex. H. Slocum - MIT





-----Original Message-----
From: Lengauer Markus [mailto:--email address suppressed--]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:14 AM
To: ANSYS User Discussion List
Subject: AW: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants


Hi Rick,

I also threw a look on that C10 and C01 data.
They are referring for rubber with Poisson-ratio of 0.5, i.o.w.
for fully incompressible material.

I think the big differences of your literature search may heritate
therefrom.

And I agree: If someone needs reliable material properties to
work with in a simulation, a self-made parameter fit of a self measured
sig-eps-curve is inevitable.

Problem for me: My piece of rubber the customer gave me is 5 x 5 x 0.5 mm.
I am not going to make compression tests with that.... :-) Well, I could sit
on it and try to "feel" the compression dl/l. But not today.


Best Regards,
Markus



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: --email address suppressed-- [mailto:--email address suppressed--]Im
Auftrag von --email address suppressed--
Gesendet: Dienstag, 01. März 2005 14:48
An: ANSYS User Discussion List
Betreff: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants


This looks like the data first posted by Manuela Waltz about five years
ago. I took this data, plus a curve from a book on rubber spring design by
Gobel, plus a relationship supplied by noted Ansys weenie Dave Lindemann,
and compared them. There was a considerable difference in the elastic
modulus vs. hardness plots, and I would expect the Mooney constants for the
materials that were the basis of the Gobel and Lindemann work would vary
also.

I tried to use this data about six months ago in a simulation of a thick
rectangular rubber gasket and got poor corelation with test data. First,
because a two constant Mooney model is only valid for relatively low (for
elastomers) strain. Second, I think you really need to base the
coefficients on tensile, compressive and shear data. My gasket was loaded
in compression, and I'm guessing that the Waltz data was based on uniaxial
tension. You simply cannot characterize the complex behavior of an
elastomer under all conditions of tension, compression and shear, with a
single simple uniaxial tension test. Similarly, you cannot correlate this
behavior to a rubber based on a simplistic hardness test. I've found the
Waltz data, while tempting, to be of limited data practical value.

Does anybody know the background behind that data? Manuela, are you still
with us?

Rick Fischer
Principal Engineer
Emerson Network Power




"KS Raghavan"

<raghavanks@infot To: "ANSYS User Discussion
List" <--email address suppressed-->
echsw.com> cc:

Sent by: Subject: RE: [Xansys]
[STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
xansys-bounces@xa

nsys.org





03/01/2005 03:09

AM

Please respond to

ANSYS User

Discussion List









Krishna Murthy,

Your post turned out to be timely for us here as we were trying to get
representative M-R parameters for rubber used in a seal. I have a question
in this connection. Do these values cover all types of rubber used? In
other
words , in case of uncertainty can these values be taken as lower / upper
bounds to applicable values ?

Thanks and cheers
____________________________________________
K. S. RAGHAVAN,
Discipline Chief, Structures ,
InfoTech Enterprises Ltd.,
Madhapur , HYDERABAD , 500 033 , India

Tel: ++91 - 40 - 2311 1473
email : --email address suppressed--
_____________________________________________



-----Original Message-----
From: --email address suppressed-- [mailto:--email address suppressed--]On
Behalf Of G S Krishnamurthy
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:49 PM
To: ANSYS User Discussion List
Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants


Dear Markus,

If you search in archieves, one of our friends in xansys had listed the
relation between shore hardness and mooney rivilian constants.

The relationship between the Shore-Hardness of rubber and the related
Mooney-Rivlin-terms with two coefficients is listed below. If you want to
have more coefficients then you will have to do some measurements.

Shore-A G-Modul C10 C01
[°] [N/mm2] [N/mm2] [N/mm2]
35 0,406 0,162 0,041
36 0,407 0,163 0,041
37 0,412 0,165 0,041
38 0,421 0,168 0,042
39 0,435 0,174 0,044
40 0,452 0,181 0,045
41 0,473 0,189 0,047
42 0,496 0,198 0,050
43 0,523 0,209 0,052
44 0,551 0,220 0,055
45 0,581 0,232 0,058
46 0,613 0,245 0,061
47 0,647 0,259 0,065
48 0,682 0,273 0,068
49 0,718 0,287 0,072
50 0,755 0,302 0,076
51 0,793 0,317 0,079
52 0,832 0,333 0,083
53 0,872 0,349 0,087
54 0,914 0,366 0,091
55 0,956 0,382 0,096
56 0,999 0,400 0,100
57 1,043 0,417 0,104
58 1,089 0,436 0,109
59 1,136 0,454 0,114
60 1,185 0,474 0,118
61 1,236 0,494 0,124
62 1,289 0,516 0,129
63 1,345 0,538 0,135
64 1,403 0,561 0,140
65 1,465 0,586 0,147
66 1,531 0,612 0,153
67 1,600 0,640 0,160
68 1,675 0,670 0,168
69 1,754 0,702 0,175
70 1,839 0,736 0,184

>From the mail the correlation between Shore-A hardness and modulus of
elasticity is:
E (psi) = 11.427*A -0.4445*A^2 + 0.0071*A^3
For an incompressible material, the shear modulus MU = E/3, and the
constant
in the NeoHookean strain energy function C10 = MU/2 = E/6

For more clarity search archieves, i am not having the exact mail .

Hope this helps

Regards
G.S.Krishnamurthy
Manager-PD
Royal enfield motors
a unit of eicher ltd
Thiruvottiyur
Chennai - 29

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lengauer Markus [SMTP:--email address suppressed--]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:52 PM
> To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> Subject: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
>
> Hi to all!
>
> Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
> from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Best Regards,
> Markus
>
> Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
> Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
> FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
> Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
> Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
> visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----Disclaimer--------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------
The information contained in this communication and any accompanying
document(s) is confidential and/or privileged material of EICHER GOODEARTH
LIMITED & all group companies. This information is intended only for the
person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission,
dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
is
unlawful and prohibited. If you have received this message in error and /
or
are not the intended recipient, please notify immediately the sender or
EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED at the telephone or fax or email address given
above and permanently delete the original message. The views expressed in
this e-mail message (including any attachments) are those of the individual
sender except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them
to
be the views of EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------


----------BorgWarner Confidentiality Disclaimer----------
The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential
and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the
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Dave Lindeman
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:32 am  Reply with quote

"...noted Ansys weenie Dave Lindeman"

I would like to thank everyone who made this award possible: my parents, my
third-grade teacher, my pointy-haired boss...

On a more serious note, the data and curve fits listed on previous messages
are for natural rubber, and should be used with great caution (or under
great desperation), and only for moderate strains.

Regards,

Dave

=============================================
Dave Lindeman --email address suppressed--
Sr. CAE Specialist (TEL) 651-733-6383
3M Company (FAX) 651-736-7615
=============================================

----- Original Message -----
From: <--email address suppressed-->
To: "ANSYS User Discussion List" <--email address suppressed-->
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:48 AM
Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants


> This looks like the data first posted by Manuela Waltz about five years
> ago. I took this data, plus a curve from a book on rubber spring design
by
> Gobel, plus a relationship supplied by noted Ansys weenie Dave Lindemann,
> and compared them. There was a considerable difference in the elastic
> modulus vs. hardness plots, and I would expect the Mooney constants for
the
> materials that were the basis of the Gobel and Lindemann work would vary
> also.
>
> I tried to use this data about six months ago in a simulation of a thick
> rectangular rubber gasket and got poor corelation with test data. First,
> because a two constant Mooney model is only valid for relatively low (for
> elastomers) strain. Second, I think you really need to base the
> coefficients on tensile, compressive and shear data. My gasket was loaded
> in compression, and I'm guessing that the Waltz data was based on uniaxial
> tension. You simply cannot characterize the complex behavior of an
> elastomer under all conditions of tension, compression and shear, with a
> single simple uniaxial tension test. Similarly, you cannot correlate this
> behavior to a rubber based on a simplistic hardness test. I've found the
> Waltz data, while tempting, to be of limited data practical value.
>
> Does anybody know the background behind that data? Manuela, are you still
> with us?
>
> Rick Fischer
> Principal Engineer
> Emerson Network Power
>
>
>
> "KS Raghavan"
> <raghavanks@infot To: "ANSYS User Discussion
List" <--email address suppressed-->
> echsw.com> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: RE: [Xansys]
[STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
> xansys-bounces@xa
> nsys.org
>
>
> 03/01/2005 03:09
> AM
> Please respond to

> ANSYS User
> Discussion List
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Krishna Murthy,
>
> Your post turned out to be timely for us here as we were trying to get
> representative M-R parameters for rubber used in a seal. I have a
question
> in this connection. Do these values cover all types of rubber used? In
> other
> words , in case of uncertainty can these values be taken as lower / upper
> bounds to applicable values ?
>
> Thanks and cheers
> ____________________________________________
> K. S. RAGHAVAN,
> Discipline Chief, Structures ,
> InfoTech Enterprises Ltd.,
> Madhapur , HYDERABAD , 500 033 , India
>
> Tel: ++91 - 40 - 2311 1473
> email : --email address suppressed--
> _____________________________________________
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: --email address suppressed-- [mailto:--email address suppressed--]On
> Behalf Of G S Krishnamurthy
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:49 PM
> To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> Subject: RE: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
>
>
> Dear Markus,
>
> If you search in archieves, one of our friends in xansys had listed the
> relation between shore hardness and mooney rivilian constants.
>
> The relationship between the Shore-Hardness of rubber and the related
> Mooney-Rivlin-terms with two coefficients is listed below. If you want to
> have more coefficients then you will have to do some measurements.
>
> Shore-A G-Modul C10 C01
> [°] [N/mm2] [N/mm2] [N/mm2]
> 35 0,406 0,162 0,041
> 36 0,407 0,163 0,041
> 37 0,412 0,165 0,041
> 38 0,421 0,168 0,042
> 39 0,435 0,174 0,044
> 40 0,452 0,181 0,045
> 41 0,473 0,189 0,047
> 42 0,496 0,198 0,050
> 43 0,523 0,209 0,052
> 44 0,551 0,220 0,055
> 45 0,581 0,232 0,058
> 46 0,613 0,245 0,061
> 47 0,647 0,259 0,065
> 48 0,682 0,273 0,068
> 49 0,718 0,287 0,072
> 50 0,755 0,302 0,076
> 51 0,793 0,317 0,079
> 52 0,832 0,333 0,083
> 53 0,872 0,349 0,087
> 54 0,914 0,366 0,091
> 55 0,956 0,382 0,096
> 56 0,999 0,400 0,100
> 57 1,043 0,417 0,104
> 58 1,089 0,436 0,109
> 59 1,136 0,454 0,114
> 60 1,185 0,474 0,118
> 61 1,236 0,494 0,124
> 62 1,289 0,516 0,129
> 63 1,345 0,538 0,135
> 64 1,403 0,561 0,140
> 65 1,465 0,586 0,147
> 66 1,531 0,612 0,153
> 67 1,600 0,640 0,160
> 68 1,675 0,670 0,168
> 69 1,754 0,702 0,175
> 70 1,839 0,736 0,184
>
> >From the mail the correlation between Shore-A hardness and modulus of
> elasticity is:
> E (psi) = 11.427*A -0.4445*A^2 + 0.0071*A^3
> For an incompressible material, the shear modulus MU = E/3, and the
> constant
> in the NeoHookean strain energy function C10 = MU/2 = E/6
>
> For more clarity search archieves, i am not having the exact mail .
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
> G.S.Krishnamurthy
> Manager-PD
> Royal enfield motors
> a unit of eicher ltd
> Thiruvottiyur
> Chennai - 29
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lengauer Markus [SMTP:--email address suppressed--]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:52 PM
> > To: ANSYS User Discussion List
> > Subject: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants
> >
> > Hi to all!
> >
> > Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
> > from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?
> >
> > Thank you very much!
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Markus
> >
> > Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
> > Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
> > FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
> > Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
> > Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
> > visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/
> > ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> > | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> > ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> ----Disclaimer------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> ---------------------------------------
> The information contained in this communication and any accompanying
> document(s) is confidential and/or privileged material of EICHER GOODEARTH
> LIMITED & all group companies. This information is intended only for the
> person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission,
> dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
> this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
> is
> unlawful and prohibited. If you have received this message in error and /
> or
> are not the intended recipient, please notify immediately the sender or
> EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED at the telephone or fax or email address given
> above and permanently delete the original message. The views expressed in
> this e-mail message (including any attachments) are those of the
individual
> sender except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them
> to
> be the views of EICHER GOODEARTH LIMITED.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> ------------------------------------------
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | XANSYS - www.xansys.org |
> | List hosted by PADT: www.padtinc.com |
> ^----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Craig Jurs
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:58 pm  Reply with quote

There are a few test labs out there with good information on
hyperelastic material models.

Axel products (they actually teach Ansys classes)
http://www.axelproducts.com/

Datapoint labs http://www.datapointlabs.com/


Oh and you can also try http://www.polymerfem.com/index.php, Mr.
Bergstrom has some good information about material models in general.

My opinion (and you know what they say about opinions), is that if this
is an important simulation (and you have the budget) you should
physically test the particular material. Relying on posted material
constants is, as others have found out, scary at best. Really depends on
how sure you have to be...


Craig Jurs
TDSystems, Inc.
--email address suppressed--



-----Original Message-----
From: --email address suppressed-- [mailto:--email address suppressed--] On
Behalf Of Lengauer Markus
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 11:22 PM
To: ANSYS User Discussion List
Subject: [Xansys] [STRUC] - Mooney Rivlin Constants

Hi to all!

Does anybody out there know, how I can derive Mooney-Rivlin constants
from the Shore A Hardness for modelling rubber?

Thank you very much!

Best Regards,
Markus

Dipl.-Ing. Markus Lengauer - Technische Berechnung
Automotive Engineering & Railway Engineering
FH JOANNEUM Gesellschaft mbH
Alte Poststrasse 149, A-8020 Graz
Tel.: ++43(0)316/5453-8413
visit our homepage: www.fh-joanneum.at/fzt/

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